Loner at 8 points - mistake?

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Nobilis
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Loner at 8 points - mistake?

Unread post by Nobilis » Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:22 pm

I just finished a rated game and I did pretty well considering, as we were in a dead heat 8 - 8. However, I did something that I really think that I should not have done. My partner, as it happens, was likely a much more experienced player. The bidding went around once, and in first seat I ended up with a strong hand, except one off suit Queen. I had already bid alone, when the wee chat flag from my partner came up that said only this: 8. I ended up losing that hand and the game as a consequence. Can somebody tell me what my partner was trying to say, and what I did wrong? I can surmise that I should not have gone alone, but why?



raydog
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Unread post by raydog » Sun Dec 18, 2022 5:59 pm

You got it. With 8 points, you only needed 2 points to win the game. Winning all 5 tricks with your partner will give you those 2 points. Winning 4 points with a successful loner will also give you enough points - in fact, superfluous points - but it is generally* harder to win all 5 tricks by yourself than if you have your partner's help. It's also less likely that you will get euchred if you take your partner along (getting euchred would give your opponents 2 pts. and the victory there and then.)

* there are a few very specific hands where you actually have a better chance of winning all 5 tricks by yourself. For example, let's say in this example you called spades as trump and held both A-JS + K-QH + JC. You have the top 3 trump and the 2nd and 3rd highest cards in hearts. You are going to win at least tricks no matter what (i.e., you can't get euchred), and you can win all 5 as long as one of your opponents doesn't hold 4 trump AND one of your opponents doesn't hold the AH. Since you have first lead, you are going to play your 3 trump first, then lead the KH and hope it wins. There is NO WAY your partner can help you, but they do have the potential of hurting you: if they hold the AH and win that 4th trick, then lead back some low card in another suit, you will almost surely lose the last trick and only win 4 tricks. BUT, if you go alone in this situation, both your K and Q of hearts win, and you get all 5 tricks.

There are a few variations on this theme, but at this point it's best just to remember the basic rule: don't go alone with 8 or 9 points!

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:28 pm

It is obvious Nobillis that you did not have a loner as YOU GOT EUCHRED! :o So the message from your partner was 'Why at 8?"

From 1st seat, your partner can help for a sweep or making a point. But this all really depends on what you held here You gave no clue what the situation was - turned down suit, what suit you called as well as the actual hand, and how you played the hand, what opponents played to each trick? Those are all important factors. Thus, difficult to analyze because you actually gave incomplete data:

Can somebody tell me what my partner was trying to say, and what I did wrong? I can surmise that I should not have gone alone, but why?[/b]


But at 8 it's more of 'euchre etiquette' not to go alone unless in a tournament that points count for something.

IRISH

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Nobilis
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Unread post by Nobilis » Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:24 am

Thank you both so much for that help and information. I will definitley remember this game and that advise.

Thank you raydog for that explanation. Guess I still have a lot to learn.

To reply to Irish, I do remember that I had 4 clubs and a Q H, but I did not have both bowers. I don't actually remember what the other players played, so I don't have that data to give you. But you are right, I should not not gone alone, especially not at that point in the game.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:19 pm

No problem, no shame & no blame! We have all made those same errors, and sometimes twice! KEEP PLUGGING ALONG.

If you had for example: JC (or JS) KC QC 9C QH - ONE opponent MUST have three trumps to euchre you JS AC 10C and with them having a higher Heart (KH or AH). A quite unfortunate and statistically low probability to get euchred. There are some other odd situations depending on how who played what. So could your partner really help - only if he had the AH or if he had an Ace to the the opponents lead on a subsequent trick and you sloughed the QH (doubtful).
In euchre it called - SHIT HAPPENS!

IRISH

XaviRonaldo
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Unread post by XaviRonaldo » Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:18 pm

There are times it is advisable to go alone only needing 2 points. However, this wasn't one of them. You had an offsuit queen. What if your partner had that ace and the opponents had the king? You've just cost yourself a point and the win at that time.

However if you had a king offsuit or a kin-x combo you're better off alone if you have top 3 Trump. You don't want your partner taking your offsuit trick with the ace and only having junk to lead for trick 5. Sometimes it is better to be alone. I can't count how many times I wouldn't have been euchred if I'd gone alone or when I would've had a euchre if my partner wasn't in the hand.

XaviRonaldo
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Unread post by XaviRonaldo » Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:16 am

To add to my previous comment. My partner just went alone ahead 8-3. They went alone. 'ok' I think 'they've seemed pretty competent so far I trust them' only for their final card to be the (Card_J-S) which was an offsuit. Why on earth would you go alone when your partner can only help. Of course I had the (Card_A-S) and the opponents had the (Card_K-S) for the stopper. If they'd brought me along then we win. I revenge euchred the rest of the game to lose.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed May 15, 2024 12:30 am

Loner at 8 is generally not a mistake. There are reasons to go alone at 8. However if taking your partner will help you better than not taking your partner then bring them along to help you get that march. The only reasons you go alone on 8 is if your partner gets the lead and can mess the lead up or lead into one of your off suit aces giving the other team a chance to trump in when trump hasnt been pulled. Or if by having your partner in the lead puts you in a spot where you might get over trumped by seat 1 or seat 3. They can give you bad leads or put you in a squeeze. However going alone on 9 has no merit at all in a game to 10pts.


Tbolt65

Edward

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