S1 Triple Ace

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knglenny
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

S1 Triple Ace

Unread post by knglenny » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:28 pm

Sorry if the topic terminology is incorrect. Scenario time.

Let's say I'm holding in S1.

(Card_K-C) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-D) (Card_10-D) (Card_10-S)

Dealer just orders up a club, lets say (Card_Q-C)

Do I lead the weak (Card_A-D) or short suit myself by playing (Card_10-S)

I see it play out both ways, but most recently I short suited myself, S2 takes the trick and as the hand plays out ended up both had a diamond in their hand.

Conversely, I've played the other way, had my weak Ace trumped and then lost my trump to the Right.

Is this a 50/50 thing? Gut feeling?



Richardb02
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:30 pm

I would have titled the post, Tripleton Ace. Tripleton is Xxx of a suit and by extension Tripleton Ace is Axx of a suit. Unfortunately Tripleton is not defined in the OE links. Perhaps Dlan will add the definition. Triple Ace indicates 3 aces in your hand, ie As Ah Ad.

What to lead is definitely covered in the OE Lessons, “What to Lead.” Read the section and take the quiz for the best answer. You can go directly to the Lesson with this link:

https://ohioeuchre.com/L-Learn_To_Play_ ... o_Lead.php

After reading the Lesson and taking the quiz, I suggest that you then post the best lead and ask for additional guidance.

knglenny
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

Unread post by knglenny » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:08 am

Thanks Richard!

I ready through (well re-read, but it's been a while). Looks like in the situation I outlined there really is no "good" lead. Both a tripleton ace and leading next are very low on the hierarchy of what to lead.

In this case, after reading the lesson from OE, I think the best lead is the next suit. Then play the hand in hopes that my Tripleton Ace is good later in the round.

Here is my reasoning, leading a low next suit card has a high likelihood of being trumped or beat with an opponents ace. However, with all trump still available on 1st street, the probability of a tripleton ace going through is very low. The Tripleton Ace has more power than a low next suit, but with each street passing it becomes more powerful. Added bonus, as a tripleton, I can communicate with my partner that I have it as the hand plays out.

I did read about leading trump in defense, however, being that if I lead my only trump I can suck out my partners trump and with only a tripleton ace this doesn't feel like the right play...am I wrong here?

Richardb02
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:35 pm

knglenny wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:08 am
Thanks Richard!

I ready through (well re-read, but it's been a while). Looks like in the situation I outlined there really is no "good" lead. Both a tripleton ace and leading next are very low on the hierarchy of what to lead.

Keep reading k. It will make sense the more you read the OE Lessons. Did you take the quiz?

In this case, after reading the lesson from OE, I think the best lead is the next suit. Then play the hand in hopes that my Tripleton Ace is good later in the round.

Agreed, but continue reading.

Here is my reasoning, leading a low next suit card has a high likelihood of being trumped or beat with an opponents ace. However, with all trump still available on 1st street, the probability of a tripleton ace going through is very low. The Tripleton Ace has more power than a low next suit, but with each street passing it becomes more powerful. Added bonus, as a tripleton, I can communicate with my partner that I have it as the hand plays out.

At the beginning of Lesson 5, What to Lead, Dlan, the OE creator, explains the basic probabilities very clearly. There are a maximum 7 cards in trump, 5 in Next or Black and 6 in the 2 Green suits (Round 1 order). That information is very important. He then cautions against leading a Doubleton Next Ace. So note, there are only 3 cards left in Next and Professor Dlan states that you should not lead the Doubleton Next ace. By extension, a Tripleton Green Ace only leaves 3 cards in that suit. So a Tripleton Green Ace is analogous to a Doubleton Next Ace. So don’t lead lead your Tripleton Green Ace! With this hand, that only leaves one decent lead, the Ts.

I did read about leading trump in defense, however, being that if I lead my only trump I can suck out my partners trump and with only a tripleton ace this doesn't feel like the right play...am I wrong here?

I don’t want to confuse readers, especially on the B&C forum, by mixing topics. As a GP, General Principle, of posting, if the new topic is important, start another post. That GP, is perfectly on target, with your question.

knglenny
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

Unread post by knglenny » Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:19 pm

Thanks Richard!

I'll take the quiz now and not mix topics in the future. Thanks again!

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