Common Euchre R1S1, Round 1 Seat 1, Mistake

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Richardb02
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Common Euchre R1S1, Round 1 Seat 1, Mistake

Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:36 pm

Tbolt65 wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:05 pm
Seat 1 doesn't bag and orders instead. They should be bagging here for the Loner in Next and would have had an easy euchre but they settle on only getting one.

Image

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D
I used to make this mistake from R1S1. R1S1 has power because if you bag (pass hoping to make more points in R2 (Round 2), you can earn 2 points if Opponent’s order (you euchre them) and, with this hand, you would have a 4 point Loner.

Picture yourself in S1 without the benefit of seeing the cards in the other hands. Analyze your R1 hand vs. your R2 hand. R2 is more powerful. (I use BPS [Bidding Point System] available elsewhere on this thread, but there should be no argument that the R2 order is stronger than R1. You get to play for 2 points if Opponents order and get to play for 2 or 4 points by ordering R2.

Picture yourself now in R2S1. Should you go Alone. Absolutely! There is only one “Stopper.” You have a 45% opportunity to take 4 points. If there are 2 Stoppers, order Alone. You still have a 20% opportunity to take 4 points. Euchre is a game of chance. You must take a chance, to improve your Euchre.

Feel free to ask questions about when to go Alone or the BPS.




RedDuke
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:56 pm

Anytime you have two guaranteed tricks in S1, you should pass round one. In this case, it was even more obvious... S1 has both bowers and the ace of trump (if the dealer orders). That's a guaranteed euchre if it's picked up. He's also got a killer hand in next with that side ace. If played well on a R2 order, this hand might even have a decent shot of getting two points on a next order in the second round, assuming the AD is buried or is in your partner's hand (which it is here, but you don't know that).

Ordering, you know for sure that you've got 1 guaranteed point, but that 9C is too weak to guarantee a march on an order. Thus, you might be giving up a point by making spades trump as opposed to the guaranteed two points for a euchre.

This hand might even be a good R2 loner in clubs! That king has a reasonable chance of walking and unless one of your opponents has three clubs (pretty unlikely), the 9C might even walk too. So might the ace since if the opponents both pass, one of them probably has a killer hand in a red suit (East has a good loner attempt in hearts here... it would fail but that's only because the right is in South's hand instead of being buried or in the dealer's hand).

Never call in R1 as first seat if you have a good hand for a R2 call. The only exception is if you can't stop a loner by the dealer (if the upcard is something higher than your best card then this might be an issue, unless you're holding a guarded left or ace... or a bunch of green aces). If you've got something that has a reasonable chance of taking at least two tricks no matter what trump is, you should pass too.

With that said, if I was holding S1's hand but my partner was actually the dealer, I'd go alone in a heartbeat.

XaviRonaldo
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:41 am

Unread post by XaviRonaldo » Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:42 am

Devil's advocate here.

There is a chance of getting euchred calling clubs here (obviously not in this hand but we don't know the opponent's cards in game) Granted it would require 1 opponent to hold all 4 of the other trump and either the AD or a heart.

Having said that, that situation is extremely unlikely (unless you are me). Believe it or not this has actually happened to me. The very next hand I was euchred holding 3 trump and 2 aces.

The only time I would order that up is if we are at the bridge

Richardb02
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:06 pm

Please notice that Tbolt commented on the OP that “They should be bagging here for a Loner in Next…” He is a top 4 player on this site. He is also the least aggressive of the top 4. When he says go for the Loner, I suggest that you pay attention.

For Beginner & Casual players, the General OE Principle is, “aggressive Euchre players win more often!” The reason is Euchre is a game of chance and you must take chances to earn more points. The contra-negative, a negative general principle is, “playing to avoid getting euchred is losing euchre.”

My stats are 7% euchred, 30% 4 points, that leaves 63% 1 point.
The EV (Expected Value) math is simple:
-.07x2 + .30 x 4 + .63 x1= -.14+1.2+.63=+1.69 points per hand,
which is outstanding.
A reasonable comparison to simply ordering is:
3% euchred, 30% 2 points and 67% 1 point, resulting in:
-.03x2 + .30x2 + .67x1 = -.06 + .60 + .67 = 1.33

You will win more often with aggressive play.

XaviRonaldo
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:41 am

Unread post by XaviRonaldo » Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:56 am

As I said it would be absolutely silly to order up just because you might be euchred in clubs. Very slim chance of that possibility. There is no downside to passing spades. If they pick it up you likely get an extra point as with that holding you're likely only getting 1 point if you call spades.

Obviously if you only need 1 point to win it would be stupid to pass spades with a guaranteed 3 tricks.

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